why i don't believe in (your) god ... (religiorant)

---INTRODUCTION---

god - is supposedly a being that is beyond all comprehension of the human mind, right?

everywhere and nowhere at once, infinitely intelligent, has lived and will live forever, right?

so if one is truly a believer, shouldn't one just accept that their god is the frikking greatest almighty being of all time and space and beyond and that god made *everything* and just leave it at that?

meaning to say that if god made the universe, then so fucking what?! If that is true, then we don't need to hear about every little detail of all the things that this god has supposedly done; we've all heard the stories at some point about how god made, well, *everything* and that kind of accounts for, you know, *every*fucking*thing* ...

so when people start pointing out all the individual things that this god of theirs has done - i find it to be kind of pointless and somewhat conceited, in other words, you are "up yourself" if you insist on frequently showing off your god by telling everyone about how great your god is by telling us all about every little minuscule detail of all the things that your god has allegedly done.

so why bother insulting your god by even attempting to fathom one iota of what it is about by spouting your mouth off over the things it has supposedly done?

it's like bragging about how your buddy made a web page, when this buddy of yours not only made the whole web site; he wrote the software that is running that web site; built the hardware that runs the web site with his bare hands; built, invented and installed every component of the internet such that you can view that web page... etc etc... and here you are, fucking bragging about some insignificant tiny web page, sheeesh.. think small much?..

and "yes!", when it comes to god, creating a whole fucking universe is an insignificant thing to a god. It *is* god we are talking about, is it not? god can do any fucking thing, stop thinking so fucking small with your petty arguments that god made the universe, if I was a god, I would be embarrassed about having made only one fucking universe and even worse still is that I would be so fucking annoyed at my followers for assuming that one pissy little universe is my greatest claim to fame, what about all the other shit god has done? Oh what's that? You aren't privvy to all the other stuff that god has done? That is my fucking point, your ideas of what god has done are so insignificant that it is not worth mentioning, even one trillion-trillionth of what god knows far exceeds your knowledge of this supposedly infinitely endowed god creature of yours.


---MIDDLE BIT---

god is undefinable - by openly admitting to a belief in god, what you are really saying is, at least in some tiny part, that you *know* something of the *undefinable* god, with the implication being that *YOU* know god *better* than anybody that you are blabbering at with your well rehearsed list of all the godly god things that make your god so great.

How can you possibly know anything, whatsoever, about something that is undefinable?

god is god, that is the only nano-particle of information that you have about god and that is *all* you should require to be a believer.

One can only imagine that these believers that blabber on all the time are *showing*off* their god and this is doubly true when these conceited believers are conversing with an atheist, telling them how wonderful god is because of all the shit this god creature made.

but for all the wondrous things that god has done, god itself remains undefinable and yet believing in this undefinable god, as many outspoken "christians" would tell us, is mandatory for being a moral person?

How can you be a moral person when you don't know squat about god and yet this stuff that you know nothing about, somehow surreptitiously makes you a morally good person?

How does that work?

and please don't tell me the things that god wanted people to know about are in the bible, well, if that is true, then what has god got to do with it?

why are you not actually following what it says in the bible? Why do people conveniently ignore the fact that their precious messiah, said that to be a good moral person, you need to give to the needy.

If 10% of the richest people purporting to be christian actually gave significant amounts of their spare cash to the needy, there would be no such thing as a needy person. Especially when there are 2.2 billion christians currently and that christianity has been around for 2000 years... so when are you fucking "christians" going to get on with that helping the needy thing?

Don't expect Jesus to come back until world poverty has been eliminated.

the belief in god is not required to be moral - how can believing in something, that is undefined, which the majority of believers don't even actually fucking follow, make someone a moral person?

Believers can't even agree on the morals taught in the their own religion! For instance, some christians are known to be hateful towards certain groups of people; eg. gays, atheists, etc.. yet Jesus teaches to love everyone, even your enemy; but clearly some christians find it too hard to obey this Jesus they allegedly get their morals from, apparently.

Basing your morality in something that is undefined means that you can and will make up any old shit to suit your moral tastes and whims, which is exactly the accusation that christians often level at non-believers, the only difference being is that christians slap a god label on their morals to give them credence, the non-believer does not need to slap on such a label to their moral choices in order to actually be moral, a non-believer does not need to be prodded or guilt tripped into being a good person, they are good persons of their *own* accord which is far more in-line with the teachings of that Jesus dude, so what the fuck is it with believers and their constant claims of how believing makes their morality better than everybody else's?

For myself, I don't believe in this Jesus most christians would purport to believe in, or rather I won't believe in this Jesus because mere belief in some supernatural entity does NOT make me a good person, and to be frikking honest, I've not ever met a christian that was actually following the teachings of JC in the first place anyway, so why would I *also* pretend to follow Jesus like some false-christian lame-o wannabe? If JC is the actual god of this universe and is as powerful as these supposed believers say that he is, then isn't pretending to be a believer going to piss god off far more than being a non-believer?



MAIN

god is *supposedly* the most fantastic and most spectacular and most intelligent being of all time and this god *supposedly* created the universe in however much time the believer reckons it took their god to do this ..

many people would agree with that notion of god ...

but no ...

they don't ...

not *really* .... they just *think* that they do ....

look at those believers who insist upon pointing out the little things that their god has done ... not only is that idolatry, but it is also *pathetic* and a sign of a weak and fearful mind because that person needs constant reassurance that their god is *real* and this is achieved by pointing out all the things that god has done... ie. the more you tell yourself a lie, the more it becomes the truth to you.

for example: god made the cute smile of a baby; god made the fluffy bunny-rabbit-shaped clouds in the sky; god saved the little boy from the plane crash (so it's a miracle, of course); god made the earth; god made the universe; god did this; god did that .....

it's pathetic because if believers truly believed in an all-fantastic god, then what is the purpose of pointing out every little thing that this god has done?

beat a dead horse much? aren't your arms getting tired from wanking yourself while you are getting off on the self-informed notion that you are a heaven-bound believer?

The frequency of rabid believers and their often spouted mantras of god's creations leads one to wonder if the believer is trying to convince others that god made the universe or if they are indeed trying to convince *themselves*...

it's like "we heard you the first gazillion times you flapped your mouth about god, give it a rest already!"

if god made the *entire* universe then it should then be a GIVEN FACT that god made the fluffy clouds and the laugh of a baby and all those other warm and fuzzy things - to harp over the little things that god has done, is *proof* that you don't truly believe in the awesomeness of god creating *everything* that is in existence because if you truly believed in this god of yours, you would not even bother pointing out all those little things because you would be so comfortable, or more likely in *awe* with the knowledge that god made everything it would not occur to you that it was necessary to dwell over every little thing god has done.

Belief in god should be like breathing; it is something that you do, one should not need to go around telling everyone about it.

bragging about all the minuscule things that god has done is akin to stating how clever an adult is by bragging about something they first mastered when that adult was two years old. except, it's infinitely worse.


---THE POINT---

see, that's why i don't believe in your god, because for any god that you could propose to me, there is no doubt in my mind that this god-notion of yours could be "out-godded" eventually by something *better* than your god.

So given this notion that mortal ideas of god can always be bettered, there is no point in putting any sort of boundary upon god, so if you want to believe in god, just *believe* in it, any prattling on about it, merely serves to remove its infinitely wondrous nature because you are putting your grubby little mortal limits on what this god of yours is all about.

So for all your pointing out of all the little things that god has done, you idiot, all you do is admit that you can not comprehend the vastness of god, which is probably why you believe in god in the first place, you can't wrap your little brain around that which is infinite and that is nothing to be ashamed of because who can grasp the infinite nature of the universe?

At least non-believers don't use something to cover up the fact that they don't know the answers to the big questions in life, seriously, do you see non-believers walking around saying "god didn't do that, god didn't do this, nature made that, nature made this, i don't know how this was made, nor do I know how that was made" .. these are things that I do NOT need to say! I don't *need* an answer to every fucking question in existence!! I have no problem with not knowing *everything* and I do *not* need a temporary answer to fill in the gap while I wait for a better answer than "I don't know!"

as a non-believer it is a given fact that things exist, I do not *need* to *know* the final and complete answer of how they came about but the pursuit of that knowledge is what I enjoy, it is what makes the universe an interesting place to be in.

If we did know everything about the universe how boring would it be?

(most) non-believers accept the universe "as is" and believers should do the same because whether your god made the universe or not is irrelevant in the here and now if you are actually following your precious Jesus and his two commandments ...

mostly written 23rd August 2011, mostly, maybe I take things by their definition to the extreme too much, but regardless of this....

LORD's prayer in Australia Parliament ... (religiorant)

The Australian Parliament opens its session with the parliamentary speaker saying something along the lines of...

"HARRY JENKINS, SPEAKER (excerpt from parliamentary prayers): Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive them who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, forever and ever, Amen."

ABC insiders 13/02/2011


This is wrong, and goes against the wishes of the very deity to which they pray:


Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.


*facepalm*

By doing this prayer thing in public, you dishonour Jesus, so your prayers will definitely go unanswered.

If somebody told you to not suck up to them in public, and you kept doing it, what would you expect to happen?


Related References:

http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/pubs/aso/so_050.htm

http://www.secular.org.au/mnu-viewpoints/mnu-separation-of-church-and-state

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/opinion/editorial/general/drop-parliamentary-prayer-and-adopt-secular-ways/1346072.aspx?storypage=0

you can not "just believe" in Jesus ... (religiorant)

if you look at the teachings of Jesus Christ from the three gospels, Mark, Luke and Matthew, it would seem that there is a fundamental problem with "just believing"

the whole point of christianity (I can't speak for other religions, i've only rejected one religion, and that experience was enough religion for me, thanks) was to be a good person, that's what many christians claim when they say that atheists can not possibly be moral people, because atheists are non-believers.

the central message of Christianity is "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" ... aka "love thy neighbour as you would have them love you"... aka. "the golden rule" .. this is the second commandment that JC taught... the first being "love thy god before all others" ..

at this point, it's pertinent to mention that these commandments are actions that you must *do* ... unlike some of the ten commandments where you can do nothing and still manage to follow them perfectly... ie. "thou shalt not kill", I'm following that one right now, and i suspect that at least six billion other people are doing the same right now as well.. but just because we are all following that commandment, that doesn't make us good people.

the point being is that if you "just believe", then how does that make you a good person when your messiah taught that you must *do* good things in order to be this good person?

this is a fundamental problem if you are claiming to follow JC, as it would seem that "just believing" in Jesus is idolatry: as that turns "Jesus" into a thing or an icon that equates to being a good person..

and in spite of what people have read from the book of John (esp John 3:16) the other three gospels state that you must do good things in order to be a good person in order to gain salvayshunn in da heavenuh, so thinking that "just believing" in JC makes you a good person, goes against the teachings of Jesus. ie. JC taught that you must take actions to be a good person, "just believing" is not taking an action so it is not what JC taught.. eg. the three gospels of Mark, Luke and Matthew, beats the one gospel of John, right?

so if you think that you are a good person by "just believing" in Jesus, then you are not believing in the Jesus from the bible, you believe in a *false* Jesus that you've made up.

This Jesus of yours may be similar to the "real" Jesus from the bible, but it's not, because you just can not ignore the two commandments that Jesus taught and claim to be a christian.. so if you "just believe" in this Jesus version of yours that supposedly said to "just believe" then you are worshipping a false Jesus, which is a false god and thus breaks the first commandment ...

just because the image you have of Jesus is merely in your mind, it's still does not negate the fact that you are committing idolatry, in fact, the easiest place to commit idolatry is right there in your mind; ironically the non-believer is inherently not capable of idolatry, so when they die, they could therefore end up in heaven *accidentally* if they are not careful

the USA, with its having "god" on currency and in the pledge is a massive example of idolatry on a national scale, it turns god into some icon that you see all the time, and i have no doubt that would lead to more of that "just" believing stuff where you simply think you are a good person because it says "in god we trust" on money, or that you pledged allegiance to god the flag and country or whatever for the ten years you went to school

"just believing" in JC would seem to be a massive problem if you think your eternal life is dependant upon it, especially in the USA; and even if the other person is actually kind and follows the teachings of Jesus to the letter, if they say to you that you should "just believe", then they are asking you to commit idolatry, because you can't "just believe" unless you go and do good things in order to be saved, or so the story goes

good without god? .... (religiorant)

i have often seen the phrase fly around that you can't be good without god and the same people who say that sort of thing, also go on about creationism, miracles, Jesus on a bit of toast, gays, abortions, and all that other business they go on about, like "read the bible", "you need to believe" blah blah blah

hmmmm... is that right?

of all the christianity i have been exposed to in the past five years on the net, at least 99% of it had nothing to do with its central message of "love thy neighbour". the entire point of christianity is that it supposedly teaches you to be a good person, right?

well, let's just imagine for a second that that notion is true

so what does creationism (and 99.9% of everything else the religious go on about) have to do with being a good person?

are you against abortions? you are not getting one, seeing how you are against them, so what does that have to do with *you* being a good person?

do you disapprove of homosexuality? you aren't gay, otherwise you would not disapprove, so again, what does that have to do with *you* being a good person?

do you go around telling people about "the word" of Jesus Christ? ahem... what does telling people about Jesus have to do with *you* being a good person?

you might think that spreading "the word" is a good thing, but you are supposed to spread "the word" by *doing* good deeds, not telling people that they should do good things; not by believing that god made the universe; not by any *thing* ...

A true christian would help people without even mentioning their faith, because having faith is beside the point, doing what your faith has taught you is the thing that supposedly gets these christians into heaven.

So when somebody goes on about creationism, it's just the thing people say they believe in to say that they are good people.. people are conditioned to think that anything that is associated with christianity means that that makes them a good person.

but that wasn't the point of what their Jesus supposedly taught, was it?

he taught that christians were to be good people by *doing* good things and not pretend to be good people by "spreading the word", "just believing in Jesus", "just reading the bible", or believing creationism or la la la

the religious majority can get off their arses .. (religiorant)

‎9/11 happened because the Muslim majority refused to stand up to their extremists.. this is no different to christians not doing anything about the likes of the Westboro Church and other hateful christians... when the religious majority wash their hands of their extremist minority, they condone the extremist's actions with their inaction ...

this is the case because what is the first thing that happens when a non-religious person makes a complaint about religious extremists?

1) the religious majority either say nothing or
2) they say their extremists are not "true" christians/muslims/whatever or
3) even worse, the majority try to palm off the non-believer by saying that the non-believer doesn't know the believers religion so they should butt out

in ALL three scenarios described above, *nothing* is being done towards the problem of extremists by the religious majority, so the religious majority are irrelevant to the argument if they are not going to help fix the situation.

if there was no religion for these extremists to rally around, the extremists would just be a bunch of loser mercenaries with a chip on their shoulder, but with a religion behind them, like it or not, if the extremists are not dealt with, the extremists end up *owning* that religion....

look at all the christians who want prudish and stupid laws - imagine if they got their way, eventually those extremists would want people put to death for not believing ... and don't think that will not happen ... what about those gutless christians who make death threats against non-believers for being non-believers? what about the persecution of apostates (ex-believers) in many muslim countries?

no .. persecution like that can not be tolerated because eventually what happens is society ends up living in fear of being put to death for doing or saying the wrong thing .. that's not civilisation ... that's a prison ... the four-story prison walls are not necessary, because everyone is trapped in their minds by fear.

this is why separation of church and state is mandatory for any civilised society - it stops bickering in between religions so no religion can gain new recruits via coercion, violence or other nefarious methods, so separating church and state even protects the existing religious people themselves - imagine the outrage if 100 million USA christians were forced to become catholics in a catholic christian nation?


this is exactly how the dark ages happened, the majority did nothing about the extremist minority and that extremist minority who wanted to control everyone, took over christianity, and it all got out of hand, and then we had a thousand years of intellectual vacuum in the "western" world, due to the fear instilled by religion, having been hi-jacked by the extremist minority ...

more outspoken atheists are required ... (religiorant)

being an outspoken atheist isn't really even required in Australia, not really, at least, it hasn't been for as long as I can remember.

And that's probably because Australians often tell religious fruitcakes not to be dickheads to their faces, even the religious tell the religious fruitcakes to pull their heads in over here, in fact, the religious are often the ones who actually do something about the religious nutters over here.

in comparison to the USA, I can't think of a single incident where the moderately religious people in the USA did something about their religiotarded fellow believers

like with those rapture billboards .. i can only think of a handful of christians saying that Camping had it wrong.

ahem!

where were the millions of US christians saying that predicting the rapture is not "appropriate"?

it's very apparent in the USA that people are more worried about Miley Cyrus giving young kids bad ideas by wearing skimpy outfits than they are worried about the unnecessary and biblical fear-mongering towards children... ie. in my mind there is no difference to kids being led astray by popular culture and kids being led to fear that the world is going to end as was predicted by those stupid billboards that Camping had put up...

but the whole thing is against what is taught in the bible because not even Jesus himself knows when the end is supposed to happen, so Camping was pretending to be *god* in that regard so where is the christian outrage at this blasphemy spouted by this old fart?

He's *pretending* to be god, there is NOTHING more idolatrous than that!

frankly, if I believed in the christian god, I would be afraid that he would smite the earth after seeing how apathetic we were towards this Camping-clown's false message of doom.

and kids *do* worry about that end-of-the-world and other sorts of god bullshit and there's a big difference to disciplining and guiding children into adulthood to be good people as compared to telling them, that no matter how good they are, god is going to destroy the world at any moment!!

no wonder the world is supposedly going to shit in an ocean of apathy; these christian scaremongers keep ramming down our throats this bullshit of theirs that says that no matter what we do, we're fucked any way.. if anything, those christian billboards should be sending positive messages, like "be nice to each other!" or better still, that money should be directly spent on the needy, like that Jesus guy that these people allegedly follow, said to do..

and the USA does have a big influence on the rest of the world too, so it's not like others around the world are not going to get stupid ideas from this rapture nonsense that goes on every now and then thanks to the Internet....

so not only do atheists need to "come out" in the USA, and good leaders will inspire that, but the USA needs the sensible religious people (and they should be in the majority) on board as well to tell their fellow believers, who go too far with their beliefs to cut out their fricking bullshit, and seeing how the USA has such a big influence, it is the duty of all people, not just the atheists, to stamp out the religious idiocy, in fact, if anything, it should be the direct responsibility of "real" religious people to put a stop to all the religious arse-hattery that is out there.

That's right, christians deal with their fundamentalist fucktards; muslims should deal with their terrorist buddies etc etc and those religious types should leave everyone else alone, you know, until they get their religions of peace to be actually peaceful, they should not bother with anybody else.

just mentioning god is idolatry ... (religiorant)

Many people claim to "know" god, or that "god is great", or that we all should "believe in Jesus because he's our saviour", but that's all bullshit, not (only) because of what is being claimed, but copious amounts of bullshit also stems from the fact that it is even mentioned in the first place!

it's god, right? if one particular god is "the" god, then that particular god is so fracking great it has no comparison, so why bother to even mention some trivial task that it supposedly did, isn't that bragging?

Q. What's a trivial task for a god? A. Everything is a trivial task for a god, otherwise, it's not god.

If someone is right about their choice of god (as they so often claim) and their god actually is "the" god, then they've won the argument without even arguing, so what's the point in arguing?

what other purpose is there in mentioning god all the time other than to reaffirm the faith of the believer?

I believe that the believers who keep mentioning god all the time, do not really believe in their god in the first place and that they keep telling us about god all the time because they need to keep reminding *themselves* in some sort of self re-affirmation that god is indeed, great!

---- MEDIUM BLOG ----

People are showing off when they claim that "god" made the entire universe (eg. creationism or "intelligent" design), or it created The Clouds, or it's responsible for a baby's laughter, or indeed it is *love*, well so what? Who gives a rat's arse what you claim god did or even what you claim god is?

If you believe in god then and you spend all your time mentioning to us about how you believe in that god, then you are not demonstrating what this god has taught you, you are not demonstrating this "love" that believing in this god has taught you. You are merely bragging, and that is all you are doing in lieu of actually being this good loving person. You are just saying that you are good person, instead of actually *being* a good person.

mere belief in some arbitrary thing, even belief in the alleged creator of the universe, does NOT automatically make you a good person.

So given this, believing in god means nothing to me, because it has an arbitrary relation to whether you are "good" or not; take paedophile priests as an example.

If you must insist on bragging that you believe in Jesus, either show us that you are a good person via your actions or your boasting means nothing, because all these things that people boast about in relation to their god, are beside the point.

For example: What does believing in creationism or intelligent design or saying that god made the clouds or whatever, what does *any* of those things have to do with being a good person?

They have nothing to do with actually being a good person, do they? So they should not even be mentioned at all in the first place.

If you boast about believing in Jesus, without doing what he taught, then you are following your own version of your Jesus-god.

eg. John 3:16, is often taken *literally*

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I believe the true spirit of that verse is such that you "believe in Jesus" by actually *doing* what he taught, and not just by merely believing in him, which seems to be exactly what a disturbingly large proportion of "christians" seem to "believe in" when it comes to their religion...

And worse still, if a person is following a god that they have made up, they have in fact, deluded themselves into following a god that is actually their *own* ego. Seriously, what god other than one you made up yourself would let you get away with all the shit you do and yet is still going to let you into heaven? Only your ego would let you get away with all your bullshit.

So you can sit there and say the gays, or the blacks, or the atheists, or whatever it was that caused god to get so angry that it decided to send a tsunami or an earthquake or a frikking asteroid, but so fucking what?

If you need to acknowledge those disasters and various other things as being done by god, then you are propping up your own beliefs, so you're not much of a believer, are you, seeing how you need an external thing to lend credence to your beliefs in god?

It's not the atheists that are actually demanding evidence for god, it's the obsessive religious people that need evidence of god with all of their looking for miracles, holy signs, Jesus returning, faces of Jesus in toast, and all other manner of things that are nothing to do with actually following their religion.

PROOF IS IN THE PUDDLING

If this god that people claim to believe in actually existed, then why do they not fear this eternal punishment by not following its teachings?

For example: there is ample evidence that no-one is actually following Jesus.

Proof of this?

World poverty.

I find it impossible to believe that if two billion christians actually got together and gave to the needy, that there would be people in need any more.

Jesus said to sell your possessions and give that money to the needy, right? If there actually were two billion christians giving to the needy, then surely people in need would be a myth by now, having been eliminated by the generosity of christians, well over a thousand years ago?

---- LONG BLOG ----

In terms of religion, I only "know" christianity, and given what I know of christianity, I won't believe in Jesus, simply because, throughout history, those people calling themselves "christian" (aka "Christ-like") have demonstrated over and over again that they are not worthy of calling themselves such a thing.

In other words, I wouldn't be caught dead wearing the "christian" label, even in death, I would find it embarrassing, so why the fuck would I associate myself with them in life? That's like calling myself a Nazi or a Klu Klux Klan member, and then having the gall to be puzzled at people's negative reactions towards me because of the groups I choose to affiliate with.

The basic reason for my repulsion towards christianity, is that I believe you need to *earn* the right to call yourself christian. By my own reckoning, I believe that I have *not* earned that right, so I will not call myself christian, ever.

The history of christianity, right up to this very day, is littered with the likes of the Crusades, Inquisitions, hating on gays, hating on atheists, hating on SCIENCE (how ungrateful?), hating on who-the-fuck-ever.

Ahem! What part of "love your neighbour", aka *everyone*, don't "christians" get?

and too fucking bad if I'm generalising too, because there are not enough christians doing anything about the "christians" that I am speaking about. If they *are* actual good christians out there, then they are not speaking out loudly or often enough. OR maybe they are too scared to?

Seriously, if "good christians" are not saying anything about the trouble makers in the two billion or so alleged Christ-followers, then those "good christians" can also not say anything about the non-believers who are complaining about those "bad christians" too, especially when *we* are telling your fellow "bad" believers to pull their heads in, when it's the "good" christians that should be doing that!

In short: Either "real" christians do something about the "bad" christians, or the "real" christians will wear the actions of the "bad" believers as well, because if they don't do anything about the "bad" christians, then it makes no difference to me whether you are a "bad" *or* a "good" christian. The way I see it, is that you are both being hypocrites, as the "bad" christians are not being "good" christians, and the "good" christians are not doing anything about the "bad" christians.

That is what happens in real life when a minority goes and ruins something, then everyone else suffers because of the dickheads. "good christians" shouldn't whinge about people generalising them into the same bucket as "bad christians", they should get off their butts and get out there and start whinging at the people giving christinsanity a bad name! "good" christians are allegedly in the majority (apparently), so they have the numbers, and yet they do little to nothing about the idiotic christians?

Like it or not, the inactions of the "good christians" against "bad christians", condones the actions of the bad christians. If "good christians" don't like that, then either stop calling yourself christian or stop openly being a hypocrite and do something about *all* of the bad apples. Not just some of them - ALL OF THEM.

but regardless of what christians pretend to believe in, I can't pretend to believe in *anything*, I WONT do that, so therefore I CHOOSE to not tell LIES by calling myself a "christian".

I can not dishonour this character called "Jesus", because along with Yoda, Gandhi and Buddha, Jesus sounds like a pretty decent sort of guy regardless of the stories being real or not. If I were to just say that I "believe" in Jesus, but then I do not do the things that he taught, i would be pretending to follow him. ergo, I would be lying, I would be dishonouring the man if he ever existed! In fact, if I did lie that I was a follower of Jesus, it would be prudent to hope that there is no such thing as Jesus, because I'd be in trouble should the big-guy show up one day!

If I just said I believed, but then didn't actually act Christ-like, I would be following my own made up version of Jesus, which would be a false Jesus, which would mean that I was worshipping a false god, which means I would be committing idolatry, which means I would be breaking the first commandment by loving a god that I had made up.

That god might still be called "Jesus", but I can also stick an Armani label on my jacket and pretend that it's the real deal as well.

it'd be like saying I believe in Yoda, but being impatient with everybody; ie. Yoda taught patience, and if I wasn't patient with most people, most of the time, then I would have no right to pretend to be a Jedi. I might say that I "believe" in Yoda, but if I don't do what he taught by being patient with people, then the Yoda that I say I "believe" in, is *different* to the Yoda that we've seen in the movies.

Just look at everyone who calls themselves "christian", there in lies my extreme objection to christianity in general, because it would seem that the overwhelming majority of "christians" have not even opened their bible, and yet they make a big deal about that I should follow Jesus too?

No!

What they are asking me to do, is follow *their* version of Jesus, not the Jesus that taught selflessness from the bible.

In other words, not only are they committing idolatry, they are asking that I commit idolatry as well, by worshipping their false god.

If you just "believe in Jesus", without doing what the guy taught, then you're only worshipping him in name, so what you actually believe in, is the *name* "Jesus", which is detached from what that Jesus guy actually stood for, right? ie. believing in the *name* "Jesus", is very much a different thing to believing in what he taught. (and don't forget that there was no-one *actually* called "Jesus" 2000 years ago, seeing how the letter "J" wasn't used until the 1500s)

In other words, if you just say that you are christian, without actually following what Jesus apparently taught, then you are making up your own version of him.

For example, say you believe in Jesus, and you follow most of his teachings, but you go around judging people all the time. If you do something like that, then you've made up you own version of Jesus, so you're worshipping a *false* Jesus.

So the way that I see it, is that pretty much every christian who has admitted that they are a christian, was pretty much making up their own version of their precious messiah, and that's a whole bunch of idolatry right there.

Summary: If you say that you are christian, but you don't follow what Jesus taught, then you're making up your own, false Jesus. This Jesus you worship might be close to the "real thing", but it's not exactly the same, so it is a *different* Jesus.

Worshipping false gods breaks the first commandment.

---- MORE LONG BLOG ----

From the sample set of people I've encountered that have claimed to be christians, maybe a thousand (definitely several hundred) of them on the internet, 99% of them ARE LIARS, they were *not* acting Christ-like, and if you aren't acting Christ-Like, then you have no right whatsoever to be calling yourself "Christian"

If these "christians" actually *were* christian, there would not be so much of this lopsided distribution of wealth in the world. ie. if christians actually followed their Jesus' teachings, there would not be such an enormous amount of poverty in the world

In three of the gospels, Jesus said to give away your money to the needy, so seeing how there are still needy people, *somebody* is lying that they are christian.

I can tell stories too, but I can not tell deliberate lies, and that's exactly what people do when they say they are christian but then have the fucking bullshit gall of then saying that their god hates fags, or god doesn't want this and Jesus wants this and blah blah fucking lbah lbah blah, when they themselves aren't even following their precious "LORD"....

shit man, the US military has this notion that to be a good soldier, you need to be a christian.

Ex-fucking-cuse me? Where in the bible does Jesus say that you can kill people under *any* circumstances?!?!?!?!

HE SAID NO SUCH THING!

THE *CHURCH* made that bit up over a thousand years ago so they could get people to fight for them in their armies!

In fact, Jesus said that to follow "The Way", you should give away YOUR LIFE before hurting anybody in order to avoid sinning of ANY nature, so WHERE THE FUCK do people get off saying that *only* christians should be in the military?!?!

FUCK YOU!

so excuse me, according to the bible, there should be NO christians that are involved in occupations where they might hurt people, therefore there should ONLY be non-believers in the military as christians have been quite clearly instructed by their messiah to NOT HURT ANYBODY.

In fact any job; police, fireman, doctors, actors, wrestlers and *EVERYONE* else that may, via their occupation, bring harm (accidentally or not) to someone should NOT be a christian, because that Jesus guy said to LOVE everyone, and that love means NOT bringing harm to ANYONE, and that means that he wanted his followers to love *everyone* and not just love the people you felt like being nice to.

Jesus said to not be concerned with people who try to kill you, as they can only kill you once, because if you retaliate and hurt them in order to protect yourself, you then give up your eternal life of living forever in peace and harmony in heaven.

READ YOUR FUCKING BIBLE, you know, instead of shoving it up your arse, because it's a lot harder to read when it's stuck up your arse, seeing how it's covered in the shit you have attributed to it.

YOU CAN'T PROVE IT AND I CAN'T DISPROVE IT - GAME OVER

i like to think of my approach to supernatural belief, as being a practical approach, because for me, it doesn't matter if there is a god or not ... it just doesn't

you can't give me proof of your god, and I can't disprove it, therefore; the argument is over before it began, so anybody trying to convince me there is a god, has already lost that argument with me, because seeing how there is either "no proof" or "*everything* is proof" - it makes *no* difference, and to harp over god doing little things when god supposedly made everything, well, that's idolatry, you SHOULD NOT NEED any extra little bits of proof to prop up your beliefs..

Jesus performed miracles ... bzzzzz .. idolatry...
god made the clouds .... bzzzzzzzzz... idolatry....
tides go in, tides go out. .. BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ .... IDOLATRY!!!!!!

your belief in god should stand by itself, if you need something else to support your beliefs, then you are not loving your god *only*, because you are *also* loving that thing that helps you love your god. That was the point of the first commandment, "love thy god before all others", it wasn't totally about not worshipping Ba'al and Krishna and what not, it was about not falling into the trap of "just believing", because "just believing" is idolatry itself...

If you "just believe" in something, but then don't follow its teachings, then it's fair to say that you don't really believe in it, right? you're just saying that you believe, therefore your belief in god has become a thing, it's become separate to actually following god.

idolatry is very easy to commit.

a true believer would not need to resort to external entities to lend credence to their supreme entity, because if you require some little thing to prop up your belief in this supreme universal being of yours, then that supreme being isn't precisely "supreme" now, is it?

IF JESUS EXISTS, THEN HOW COME THERE IS WORLD POVERTY?

actually, you can give me proof of god, and that's to act in a way that I find agreeable, and if your agreeable actions are somehow defined by the god that you boast about believing in, then that's tentative proof (or rather, "I'll take your word for it", ie. I believe that you believe) that your god exists to you.

I say this because if Jesus really existed, there would be no poverty in the world, there just wouldn't.

But that's not because Jesus would have prevented all the suffering from happening in the first place, but it is because if all the christians gave away all their money to the needy (you know, like Jesus said to in *three* of the "gospels"), the wealth of two billion christians would be evenly distributed across the world to those who need it the most, and there would be no such thing as world poverty.

But since there *is* world poverty, that is proof to me that two billion christians are not being very christ-like, therefore according to the overwhelming proof that "believers" have given me via the fact that world poverty persists (and is getting worse), then this Jesus they boast about believing in, can't possibly exist, because why would they defy the teachings of their precious Master if not following those teachings meant that they spend an eternity suffering in hell?

But if you are *actually* being christ-like, I'm not going to have a problem with it, can't think of too many christians that were christ-like... uhmmm.. Gandhi? oh wait... never mind ... oh.. what about Jesus?

"In truth, there was only one Christian, and he died on the cross."
--[Friedrich Nietzsche]

NOT MY PLACE TO SAY WHETHER YOU SHOULD BELIEVE IN A GOD OR NOT.

I might have an opinion about believing in some arbitrary deity figure, but it is just an opinion, and it's an opinion that doesn't really matter, because what ever the answer is, there's no point in fretting over whether there is a god or not.

it's not up to me to determine or lay down the law as to whether other people should believe that there is a god or not, you can believe what you want

But in saying that, I will demand that you let me do the same.

But for interest's sake, if it was up to me to impose that decision upon people, I would say, "no, don't believe in god, it's time for humans to grow up already, it's time for people to put aside at least one excuse for being crappy to other people.", because you know how when one small group of people go and do something stupid and they mess it up for everyone else?

should there be unequivocal proof of god, I would still not follow it. why would I? it's already too late, the things that have been done can't be undone, you can't *start* with a clean slate all of a sudden at some arbitrary point by deciding to believe in Jesus or whatever it is.

Don't kid yourself if you think otherwise, you may be forgiven for your sins by Jesus, but that doesn't mean shit as to whether you are going avoid punishment for those sins. (unless of course Jesus is your own ego, in which case, you can get away with anything)

People might think that they have some sort of clean slate by believing, but that's bullshit because if you *wrong* someone, it's that person that has to forgive you, you can't just believe in some dude in the sky and have that meaningless action make up for your "sins" against someone else!!

that's just the most selfish thing I can think of; you do something bad to someone, they suffer, you ask Jesus for forgiveness, and all is good again? I don't fucking thing so, because when you try and attribute those selfish actions to a "christian", you have to ask... "ahem, just which Jesus is it that you believe in?? because I never heard of a selfish Jesus"

so in essence I won't believe in Jesus because most people who claim that they do believe in him have the story utterly wrong.. eg. christians who "hate" gays, Jesus said to love everyone, so what's your fucking problem homophobic christians?

and it doesn't matter if there really was a Jesus, or whatever god it is from the over abundant supply of not only gods, but different versions of those gods as well, ie. how often do you encounter any two people that would seem to really believe in the same "Jesus" the same two ways or even agree on how to interpret half of the bible, for example.. sure people say they believe, but it's whatever they make it out to be, ie. no two people could possibly agree on every aspect of the bible... unless of course those two people didn't miss the point of the bible, that being that Jesus said to love everyone, no matter *what*.

because no matter what you can tell yourself that you believe in, it's how your actions are judged in this life that count. and according to the story book itself, the *only* way to get into the christian heaven, is to be an honourable person in this life, simple belief is not enough, if you think otherwise then you are lying to yourself in your interpretation of the bible, or someone has gone and filled your head with their incorrect notion of their belief in Jesus, and you've blindly run with that notion without questioning it, because it's exactly what you wanted to believe in. ie. everyone loves a happy ending.

---- END ----

congrats, you made it to the end

mostly written, 31st March 2011, mostly... excuse the points being repeated a few times, as this is probably long enough to be four blogs

it's not the non-believers that need proof of god.. (religiorant)

non-believers often ask that the believer present proof of their imaginary friend

why? it's the believers that need the proof of god way more than the non-believer...

just by even mentioning god, the believer is trying to put forward some idea about their god...

listen to them go about:

• the multitude of miracles
• the praying
• the many disasters
• their churches
• the Jesus faces they see everywhere
• how they say that Jesus died for their sins!
• and how you must believe in Jesus or you're going to hell!
• and how often do they Praise Jesus!
• and the many many times Jesus-will-return declarations aka the Rapture aka the end of the world
• saying that gays being an "abomination"
• having the gall to say that atheists are beings spawned of the devil
• saying god hates fags
• no atheists in foxholes
• the bible is the inerrant word of god
• the tide goes in, the tide goes out
• creationism
• "intelligent" design
• and many many many others

do you see all of these things?

they are *things* to help "prove" or lend credence to the "fact" that their god exists, these are *things* to help make their god *real*

if something is *real*, even if it's an idea, then it's of *this* world/universe/dimension ...

in other words, those things listed above, are not "godly" ..

even ideas about god, are still human ideas

if you need a thing to help make your god "real", you are breaking the first commandment, "love thy god before all others"...

and from what I've understood of religion, that's the WORST "sin" there is!!

your faith in god should stand by itself, because if you need a *thing* to help define your faith in god, aka your *love* of god, then you are placing that thing before your god, because *you* need proof, and by needing that proof, you commit idolatry, not to mention that you don't have total faith in your deity...

and the only need for proof of god in this world, is to distract you from the fact that this god of yours, has been totally made up by *you* ... non-believers do not hold a candle to believers in terms of needing proof of god....

I could never believe in Jesus.. (religiorant)

I could never believe in Jesus, not because I think the whole bible story is full of shit, but simply because people calling themselves "christian" had (and have) Jesus' message of "love everyone", so abysmally wrong, so you know, if that whole Jesus business is true, it's far better to not be a "christian" as people who call themselves christian, for the most part, are very far removed from what JC allegedly taught and I find it unwise to associate with people who blatantly get their christinsanity wrong.

There should be a test, like a driver's exam, before you can call yourself christian, because being christian, I've always felt, is something that you should EARN the right to call yourself.

I suspect that as many as 99% of christians have their Jesus wrong, possibly more

Jesus taught some noble, but rather impractical things, ie. he was far too selfless, and in today's world where people gobble up people offering their help but never return the favour, it's very unwise (if you want to keep on eating) to actually be christ-like; but the thing is, if you're gunna call yourself christian, then you fucking better actually be christ-like, otherwise you're just a shit spinning liar.

i mean, how many christians have given away all their money to those who need it? (JC said give all your money to the needy if you want to follow him); if a christian wrongs you, do they over compensate when they are made aware of how they hurt you? (Jesus said that if someone wants your jacket as compensation for your wronging them, give them your coat as well, assumingly, to demonstrate just how sorry you are); JC also taught that he wants you to give your life rather than commit "sin"; JC also taught that if people try to kill you, *let* them; and if someone hits you, let them hit you again!; and just how many christians are actually not judgemental?

how many christians actually do these things?

proof that christians don't actually follow their precious messiah's teachings is that if they followed the whole give away all your money to the needy (probably even if they only gave a quarter of their money) there would be no such thing as world poverty

the fact that there is so much hardship in the world and the fact that christians let it happen, is all the proof I need to determine that Jesus doesn't really exist, and good thing too, otherwise all those christians would be screwed, and us heathens would have to listen to their whining for all eternity in hell about how they thought they were "good christians" who assumed that they were going to heaven

atheists are arrogant.... (atheiorant)

atheists are arrogant; they are, but no more or less arrogant than believers are..

and I don't mean that atheists are arrogant in the sense that they have the gall to deny an individual's god with some "clever" bit of logic, or even debunk one of those religious stories with some fact that would blow it out of the global flood waters, or even saying "mate, don't be a dick-head, you know all those bible stories are bullshit, right?" but...

atheists are arrogant for even attempting to use their intellect against the religious, it's just not fair!! *stomps*foot*and*pouts*

it's arrogant to use your logic when god just isn't logical in the first place, so don't expect results using logic!

do you try to talk about philosophy with your cat, well?

it's a fair bet that the non-believer is going to be cleverer than the believer, so the non-believer should not forget that they already have the advantage in any 'game' of facts and logic, so it just seems ridiculous for atheists to even attempt to shoot the fish in the barrel.

If you argued with a mentally challenged person and walked away from that argument feeling like you had won, that's no victory. If you're a 120kilo heavy-weight that beats the crap out of a 60kilo weakling, that's no victory. If you know a martial art, and you use that on someone who couldn't hurt you even if they tried, that's not a victory, no matter how much they tried to hurt you.

On top of this, even if you did trounce every religious argument you've ever encountered with all these facts about just how wrong their bullshit is, (which isn't really that much to boast about, when you think about it) it's still not a defeat to the believer, it's probably a *victory* to the religious person if they merely retain their faith.

Maintaining the status quo is just as good as a victory to the believer, you've tested their faith, they still have it, therefore *you* lose, doesn't matter if you were actually right and actually did win the debate with your facts and figures, you will always lose from the believers' point of view, you can't beat their god/Jesus/Muhammad/whatever with your logic.

Why do you think these religious clowns keep going on about the same old fucking thing all the fucking time? that is soooooo fucking boring.... come on.. no space is not a fucking ocean, no the planets don't slide around on invisible rails, no the fucking earth is not held in place by its magnetic field so it will not fucking fall into the chasm of space if it fails!! JESUS FUCKING CHRIST!! GROW UP!

you can only change someone's mind beat someone's god with patience, and from what I've seen on the internet, patience is a rare commodity, so don't waste your patience on the beating of dead horses...

"every Jedi knows you can not save someone who does not want to be saved"
--[Jedi General Aayla Secura]

DEBUNKING THE RELIGIOUS AND THEIR STORIES IS SO EASY, A CHILD CAN DO IT

Debunking religious tales is *easy*, a child can do it, so it's arrogant to try this logical, rational and Captain Sensible approach to debunking god and expect that it's somehow going to change some overly religious person's mind, especially in the short term.

Instant changes, on an emotional level, can't be made without 'hurt', that's why feelings of grief will often linger, right? You can't just suddenly wish away the hurt, you'd be a droid if you could do that.

Likewise you just can't wish away the 'dumb' that goes along with the religious point of view, as people don't want to change what they 'know' to be true in any sort of a hurry, they aren't droids any more than you are. The same thing happens with people who stay in less-than-ideal relationships, they just don't want to give that security blanket away, even if it's old, crusty, stinks to high heaven and treats them like crap.

Debunking religion does have the positive effect of pissing the religious off though, but it mainly serves the selfish purpose of propping up the fact that you are right, of course their frikking god is a load of bullshit.

So logic and facts are not going to be that useful, especially when it comes to the bible, seeing how most of the christians I've seen online clearly don't even understand the bible themselves. It's kind of silly to debunk the bible and expect that a believer is going to have a change of mind, especially when the believer doesn't even care if their precious bible is full of shit in the first place! It's kind of like expecting people to know their multiplication tables, when they don't even know basic addition, if they don't know basic addition, then there is little point bamboozling them with fancy schmancy multiplication.

So, Logic + Bible = #fail ??

Logic isn't totally useless in your arguments, just don't expect a return on your investment.

don't get me wrong, if you try to argue with a child about something that they think to be true (perhaps because their Mum said it was so), eventually they are going to realise the truth if you keep the logic up at them.... the keyword there is *Eventually*, so this will *only* happen if you keep up with telling them your truth, but until they come around to your way of thinking, they will probably *hate* you for trying to tell them that thing their Mum said, that makes them feel warm and fuzzy about themselves, is stupid, or bullshit, or lies or whatever craptacular superlatives you can think up.

What do you think all the abuse flying around in the "religious war" on the internet is all about? You just have to say the word "Atheist" and religiotards go *spastic*, what's the point in trying to waste your intellect on fucktards like that?

Using raw logic just pisses the dumbarse fucktarded believers off, and soon as you piss them off their brains start saying over and over .......

"LA LA LLAA LA LLA LA LA LA LAL LAL LA LA LA LA LAL ALA LAL LAL ALA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LLLA LA LA LA LA LA L A L A LA LA not listening to you LA LA LLA LA LA LLA LA LA LA LA LA LA LLA"

beliefs are based in emotions, you can not change how someone feels unless you make your argument from *their* emotional point of view.

LISTEN TO OBI-WAN YOU MUST!

"Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."--[Ben 'Obi-Wan' Kenobi]

Wise words indeed, and very relevant to what I'm babbling on about. If you can't understand what the other person is putting themselves through with this rubbish they tell themselves, then you are going to have a very hard time trying to unravel their labyrinth of warm and fuzzy feelings by using your factual tales about how their religion is bullshit.

it's *very* important that the other person's point of view be taken into consideration, if you truly and compassionately believe that it is "for-the-best" that people give up their religion, then you need to speak to them on *their* emotional level, and *not* on your emotional level with your facts and figures and logic and your rationalistic points of view

You should use your clever logic to formulate a solution that deals with the emotional aspect of their belief.

so forget any of the logic you have, because unless you have forever to be patient with someone, you will get little-to-no results. You may make a dent in someone's belief, but that dent will probably takes months or years to rust so bad until it can't be ignored any more, that is of course, if the religious person's emotional concerns stemming from their belief in god, doesn't make them completely dismiss your logic summarily out of spite, seeing how their jealous and perfect and eternal god outranks you and such.

Think about your own perspective; only *you* can change how you feel, right? likewise, you can not change some other person in an instant by delivering them some 'fact' that they are supposed to take to heart, they have to want to change, and they have to want to change at their own pace.

You may deliver some fact that may just cause the cascade into breaking that person's beliefs, but the hit and miss ratio of this tactic is severely balanced in the favour of the "miss" side.

If you're an ex-believer, relate your own experiences.

save your fancy facts and logic for later on, once you've got them asking questions

THE AFFRONT

attacking the concept of god, is an affront to the believer's very concept of eternal life, you've attacked their assertion that they have the ability to cheat death by believing in this loving god, you've attacked their emotional need for god by saying that everlasting life (that is somehow provided by this god creature of theirs) is in fact, a lie.

How would you feel if you suddenly found out that this tight-rope you were walking upon, didn't actually have a safety net that would catch you if you should fall?

how do you react when someone says some lie about someone you are close to? that's what you are doing to the believer when you attack that god thing of theirs. Realise this emotional dependency in your arguments, and *use* it to your advantage. Realise that you are attacking them and their ego.

That's what you are really doing.. say "god doesn't exist" and you are saying that the *ego* of this person doesn't exist, no wonder they go ballistic when you deny their god.

put yourself into their position; how would you feel if someone you were close to was suddenly revealed to have killed every creature on earth? or that your parents didn't actually exist?

that can't be far removed from you're asking the believer to do, even if god is only in their heads. remember the moment that you discovered that Santa Claus wasn't real?

ex-believers may remember going into a mild (or perhaps even massive) panic at the moment they thought, "oh no! I really don't get to live forever" ... oh ... snap..... ex-believers may also remember that 'rush' they got when they thought that Jesus walked with them at every moment that they were alive and how it gave them some sort of righteous self dignified feeling of just being there in the world, all because they are a believer in Jayzsus Cahrist...

believing in Jesus must be very much like being in love, without that whole having-to-worry-about-being-rejected thing, but in order for people to let their Jesus go, people need to grow and expand, at their own pace.

Realise they need to let go of their own *ego* - you can *never* defeat somebody's ego, and if you did, it could actually result in that religious fruit cake flipping out altogether.

*use* that to your advantage, address the underlying emotional concern of the religionist, and leave your conversations about "facts" for your dog, because at least your dog will appreciate the time and attention you give him, even if he doesn't understand you in the slightest.

SO WHAT TO DO?

So to truly deal with the problem of religion, you need to look at it from the believers point of view, because even if their god is just imaginary, their imaginations are still very much real to them, and you know what it's like to get caught up in a story, right?

imagine you are a person living inside a story all the time, imagine walking around believing in Lord of The Rings, or Star Wars or Harry Potter or Dungeons and Dragons as if it were "real"?

The sheer absurdity of the idea of believing in some other person's anachronistic story from a few millennia ago is beyond even trying to address. It's a *facepalm* situation that is so intense a joke that you honour it's absurdity by even acknowledging it's existence, because to even denounce such a joke as religion is to give it more credence than the joke deserves.

"their jokes, don't make me laugh, they only make me feel like dying in an unguarded moment"
--[The Church]

because seriously, some people really *do* need to have guidelines about how to behave, so even if they do have it that wrong, it's best to let them have their teddy bear comforting joke, telling them that their teddy bear is wrong will not help much, instead, tell them that they are not following what their teddy bear wants them to do, that they shame their teddy bear by not following Teddy's teachings.

so instead of trying to tell them all the crap they believe in is wrong, you could always teach them how to get their religion right.

If people actually followed what Jesus taught, i wouldn't have a problem with christians, even if they quarter-followed what was taught it'd be great... but that's not going to happen because the fact is, it's very hard to be Christ-like, so showing people that they aren't even following their precious Jesus, is bound to help them reject Jesus of their own accord, at least, that's my theory...

tell them why you don't believe; I don't believe in Jesus Christ because I haven't seen any "christian" actually acting christian, so i'm not going to pretend to be something that I'm not, especially when people call themselves christian when they are clearly not, why would I lump myself in with the greatest lie and joke of all time, why would I identify with a people that have the gall to call themselves "Christ-like"?

I can't think of a bigger joke on this fucking earth. It's a joke so big, it's not even funny.

So, give up on your intellectual battle against the religious, it's not working as well as you would hope, I bet you piss the not-so-smart christians off, especially with all that fancy explanations of fallacies and logic, they don't even understand their bible, they're not going to understand logic..

ie. people have an emotional attachment to money because it provides security, but this precious Jesus the christians allegedly follow, told his followers if they want to follow him, then they are to sell all their stuff and give the money to the needy... atheist should educate the believers, tell them to part with their precious money...

do you know many christians that have given away all their money?

"In truth, there was only one christian, and he died on the cross"
--[Nietzsche "Der Antichrist" (1888)]

mostly written 11th Feb, 2011.... mostly....

god is dead, and we really did kill him... (religiorant)

"god is dead, and we killed him"
--[Nietzsche]

Nietzsche said this about christianity, but not so much in the context that he meant it out of spite or out of disrespect for Jesus Christ.

Far from it.

Nietzsche said this because he was referring to how people don't actually follow what Jesus taught.

let's play a game, shall we?

Challenge 1) "if you are really a true Christian, in the true context of what Jesus Christ taught, then put your hand up if you are a Christian and you truly believe in Jesus Christ and what he taught"

Did you put your hand up? you've failed already...

you can't just put your hand up and say, "I'm a Christian", what's that about?

If I went around saying I was "Christ-Like" or some other out-there thing, like "I'm an astronaut", I would *expect* people to challenge me and ask me to prove it, you have to *prove* that you are a Christian before we will believe you...

So why do believers merely think that I am going to take their word for it when they merely say that they are christian?

Get fucked man, just saying you're a christian is merely some *thing* that you've said, and it means *nothing* to me if you don't have the actions to back up your claims, so admitting that you are christian in the first place sees you #FAIL the "true" christian test, and if you feel it necessary to say that you are a christian, before I've had to chance to decide for myself that you are worthy of such a title, then it will take you years to unwind the distrust you've created with your self declared affirmation that you are "Christ-Like".

You *did* read the bible, right? You read the bit where Jesus says to not brag about praying and that you shouldn't brag about the 'good' things that you do, right? Shit guys, if you can't brag about those important things, then merely saying you are christian is a far worse form of bragging because you haven't even done anything whatsoever to back up your claim.

the whole 'label' christianity, Jesus, Christ etc.. it all means nothing, "The Way" has never been about believing in a person / character / myth / historical / existent / non-existent entity called "Jesus", the whole "believing in Jesus" was meant to be an affirmation that you "Believe in not harming anyone, at any cost, ever" .. it was *never* meant to be about the person "Jesus" himself.

that's what the whole dying on the cross thing was about - Jesus died at the hands of his captors when he could have struck them down with his godly powers, but Jesus only used his power for good - see the superhero connection with Jesus there? ...

just saying that you "believe in Jesus" or that you are a christian, is beside the point, because actions are what really count, words don't matter shit if you don't back them up with those actions.

Challenge 2) I won't bother, seeing how I doubt you even passed the first test....

the burden of proof is on the believers ... (religiorant)

forget the technical and/or logical points of view to back up why the burden of proof is upon the believers and forget the whole thing where if you make an incredible claim you need to have incredible proof as well...

The burden of proof is on the believer, it always has been, as it is up to the believer to prove that their god is real by actually following what their god says to do.

And in the case of christianity, here's a set of criteria, to test to see if Jesus, is in fact "real"

1) When someone assaults you, do you stand there and let them assault you again?

2) Have you sold all of your possessions and given the money you made to the needy?

3) If someone tries to kill you, do you let them?

4) Do you refrain from making unfounded judgements and/or assumptions about people without first investigating if your accusations are warranted?

5) Would you go as far as Jesus did by dying on the cross to avoid sinning?

These things were all taught by Jesus, so if you answered "no" to any of those questions, then why call yourself christian?

unless of course you want to justify to me why you aren't following what Jesus said to do, remember, what Jesus says outranks *anything* else in the bible, so don't even bother looking to the Old Testament or quoting something from "Saint" Paul in the New Testament as some sort of "rebuttal"....

If the Jesus from the bible, which you claim to follow, is in fact real, you would be doing all of the good things to avoid being sent to hell wouldn't you?

It would seem that christians don't realise that *not* being nice to people, is in fact, a *sin*.

eg. If you see someone in need, and you don't help them, that's a sin. I bet most christians don't realise that that was the point of Good Samaritan parable, and that it doesn't *matter* what you call yourself, as long as you help the needy.

so if you're not doing those 'good' things, it's fair to assume that you don't *reallllly* care to follow Jesus because you're not *reallllllllly* going to be sent to hell for all eternity, now are you?

What sane person would claim to follow the supreme being of the universe, but then blatantly not actually follow what their LORD taught when they know full well that to defy their LORD's teachings will mean that they get to spend all eternity in hell?

the burden of proof is on the believers, it is up to them to show that their Jesus exists by *actually* doing what he taught but of course, that's just too fucking hard to do.

teach the christians how they've got their religion wrong.... (religiorant)

i believe for christians that don't seem to be following what their Jesus taught, that it's best to teach them the things that their Jesus actually taught... like, derrrrrrr

let's face it, a lot of the world seems to be heading towards anarchy, and for fuck sake, there's this great teacher of peace just lying around, called Jesus, which many people "say" they follow, but they don't actually follow what he taught, most of them aren't even close, so let us non-believers *teach* them what their precious Messiah actually taught!!

non-believers are supposed to know the bible better than the believers anyway, right? so tell the believers all the "facts" about the things that JC said to *do*

don't bother with the "facts" of things like The Ark being bullshit (the whole food chain would have stopped for a year) or how we'd all be inbred if we actually came from two people, or point out that Cain needed to wear that mark to warn *other*people* not to kill him; or point out that bit of the bible that calls a thing they *hate* an abomination also just happens to go and call a thing they *like* an abomination as well. eg. if a man lying with a man is an abomination, then so is the USA's national symbol, the eagle. (Leviticus 11:13)

there are a lot of bullshit negative things that can be lifted from the bible to 'validate' people's emotional hatred for other races, for gays, for atheists, for whatever crap they can dream-up out of it, and we know that battling hatred requires much effort, much of which has no actual end result, because you have to go and do it all over again with the same people over and again and again and again and the stubborn mindset of the fanatic believer ends up remaining intact, in fact, they've probably become even *more* stubborn and obstinate in blindly accepting their beliefs because you keeping arguing with them...

"You can't change my mind, I *believe* in Jesus!!"

on the other hand, telling people about the *positive* things that their religion says to do that they aren't doing, means they have to emotionally justify to themselves why they aren't doing all those 'good' things that JC said to do.. ie. give to the poor, help the needy, don't judge, love your neighbour, give your life to avoid sinning, blah blah blah ..

if people want to justify why they are not doing what their precious Messiah said to do, you can then tell them that you don't call yourself a christian for that very reason...

eg. I'm not a christian because;
* "I could never give away all my money to the needy, I *earned* that money, well, a lot of it, but I'm not just going to give it away to somebody I don't even know who probably doesn't even share my values!",
* "if someone hits me then i'm going to hit them back, or at the very least, I'm not going to stand there and let them do it again",
* "if someone judges me then I do not feel in the least bit obligated to refrain from judging them right back in return",
* "if someone tries to kill me then I don't have a problem with doing the same in order to stop them from killing me",
blah blah blah...

Jesus taught that you are to show love and tolerance in *all* of those situations above, so the teachings of Jesus are rather nice, but it's just *too* nice to be practical in a world when many of the christians themselves choose to not follow what JC taught, and yet freely choose to still claim that they are christians, nonetheless.

The nerve of believers telling non-believers to follow Jesus Christ when *they* aren't following him themselves?!?!?

If one can not do the things that Jesus Christ taught, then is it justifiable for one to say that they are "christian", when one knows fully well that they are not being Christ-like at all?

the fanatical christian can justify to you why they use the bible to validate their hatred, "Oh I hate gays because the bible says XYZ in the book of Blah chapter AB, verse RS", that's easy....

but it's a lot harder for them to justify to you why they aren't doing the positive things they are supposed to be doing without first justifying to themselves as to why they can call themselves "christians" when they aren't being even remotely "Christ-like".

The "christian", who merely says that they are christian, can *only* use their selfishness to justify why they don't give every thing they own to the poor; they can only use their need for self preservation to justify why they don't let someone hurt them;

Jesus died on the cross in a selfless act, he did that because he wanted all of his followers to go just as far in order to avoid hurting people, *all* the time. ie. you don't get to take a break from being a christian, not even for a fucking nano-second. This is your chosen full-time calling and to do any less than be willing to die on the cross in order to avoid sinning is to admit that you are a selfish lying piece of shit arsehole that is pretending to be a christian.

And what a fucking joke that is! How else can true peace be achieved if we focus more on ourselves than we do on others? The reason why there is no peace in the world is because christians (and other religions, for that matter) can't be peaceful.

there would be no such thing as "world poverty" if 2 billion christians *actually* gave half their money away to charity, and by the way, JC said to give it 'all' away as far as that bible says...

People just can't give all their stuff away, or rather, they *wont*, as it's just not practical.

so the best way that i believe to "disarm" religion, is to teach religionists the true "spirit" of the meaning of their religion.

so for christians, they should be made aware that when Jesus performed all those miracles for the sick, injured, dying and dead, he didn't just do that to be "nice" by using his god "powers" to help others, rather, he did that to prove that when it came to being tortured and nailed up onto the cross, the miracles were proof that no matter what, he wouldn't use his "powers" for bad, because he would have had to have hurt somebody in order to prevent them from putting him up on the cross.

So, in fact, dying on the cross wasn't some thing that Jesus went through to somehow make people "forgiven", it was actually how far he wanted his followers to go as well in order to avoid "sinning".

Dying on the cross was exactly what Jesus wanted his followers to also do, should it come to that. So in actual fact, dying on the cross for you sins, was meant to be a reference to the christian follower dying on the cross to save you from *your* sins which you would no doubt commit if you tried to stop yourself from being nailed up on a cross.

Don't believe me? Well, if I'm right, we can talk about it in hell for all eternity.


---END---

speak to children on their emotional level, not on *your* intellectual level, a logical and rational argument may seem like the right thing to do, but when dealing with illogical things like emotional biases, logic just isn't as useful as you would hope it to be.

Jesus is not just a myth, it's worse than that ... (religiorant)

yes, Jesus is a myth, son of god; performed miracles; water to wine; raising the dead; curing the lepers; died on the cross; came back three days later; ascended to heaven ... blah blah blah!!

yep, that's a tall story all right, the stuff of legends, the makings of myth...

did you know that the letter "J" wasn't even used until 1500 years after JC had died? so this notion that there was someone literally called "J"esus 2000yrs ago is indeed, very, very much a myth.

but that's not the only reason why Jesus is a myth, Jesus is a myth because the majority of christians don't even follow his teachings, not strictly, in fact it would be fair to say that no "christian" actually follows Jesus' teachings properly and to the letter, except for a very small minority, and ironically, many of those people are probably Buddhists or Hindus who just happen to subscribe to the same philosophy as Christ.

So the reality is that the majority of christians are probably worshiping a Jesus that they have made up, and what is a myth, but something that we've made up?

JESUS AND THE FLAT EARTH MYTH

Jesus and the flat earth myth, sounds like a bad covers bad, but it shouldn't be a particular concern to non-believers that Jesus is factually a myth.

It's worse than being a mere factual myth.

For instance, I'm not overly inclined to tell people that Jesus probably was a complete fabrication, just like telling (apparently) good kids that Santa is not real, what's the point other than to be cruel? On the other hand, with a spoilt little brat who demanded that Santa bring him some particular present, I'd be more than inclined to destroy that little Santa fantasy.

Hey, Luke! Santa's not real!

So in the spirit of how to treat a spoilt little brat, feel free to tell religionuts who've got their religion wrong, ie. practically all of them, that Jesus is a myth, because not only do they worship a myth, but it's a fair bet they've got that myth wrong. To be honest, I actually expect that christians getting their religion right, would actually be relieved to see someone pointing out to the masses who do indeed have their religion wrong that they are a bunch of cock suckers for getting it so massively wrong.

The myth of Jesus is like the flat earth myth, because the flat earth myth, is a myth itself. LOL! Bad analogy, I know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth

Not since before the times of the Ancient Greeks, *at*least*, was it commonly accepted that the earth was flat, a lot of people just think that people *used* to think that the earth was flat. That myth started up about a hundred years ago.

So regardless of whether there really was a Jesus, it doesn't matter, because most people have the mythical Jesus from the bible wrong anyway because they are believing in myths about the myth. It's myth to be squared! it's a bird, it's a plane! no! it's super-myth!

BLOODY ROMANS! ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE

Jesus' highest law was to *love* - at all costs - that's what the bible says in Matthew 16, and that's the example he set by dying on the cross, with that example being, that in spite of the extreme punishment and torture he was put through, he stood there and took it all, he did not defend his life, he *gave* it, because in order to save his life, he would have had to have sinned.

JC would have had to have become violent in order to resist the bloody Romans from trying to put him up on the cross, well, he could have cheated and made them all fall asleep or something, but JC didn't work like that, apparently. mysterious ways and such, i would imagine.

From what I understand of Jesus' teachings, if someone was beating up your grandmother, unless you can stop that from happening *peacefully*, ie. without violence, then you are sinner. and of course if you take revenge on the person who administered the beating, then you are sinning as well, Jesus didn't teach "eye for an eye" - love was the highest commandment.

This is what Jesus was teaching in the Book of Matthew, Chapter 16, with the most relevant bit being...

Matthew (16:24) Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. (25) "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. (26) "For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?

See that?

"let him deny himself" means that you deny your life in this world

"take up his cross" is a metaphor saying that you bear your burden as far as it will go, even if it means you give your life doing it

"whoever desires to save his life will lose it" means even if you try to preserve your life in this world via violence, you will lose your eternal life.

"whoever loses his life for My sake will find it" - more metaphors - no wonder people don't "get" this stuff - but this is saying that if you lose your life in this world for the sake of upholding Jesus' commandment of love, you will have eternal life.

And there is the CRUX (pun intended) of the problem with christians and their christianity, they can't do that. they *wont* do that!!

christians don't willingly give away their lives because they do NOT actually have that much faith in Jesus Christ to go and do that, or does faith come in degrees? different sizes perhaps? is faith just a convenience, that you have when you want it? whip it out of your wallet like it's a gold AMEX card, or maybe even a get out of jail free card you stole from a monopoly game and somehow you think that it's valid in real life? can you get a side dish of faith with your bullshit stories of two thousand year old magic?

customer: I'll just have the supersized bullshit stories from thousands of years ago, thanks
employee: do you want faith with that?
customer: I *said* "I'll **just** have the supersized bullshit stories" thank you
employee: it'll only cost you 50 cents?
customer: okay, but I bet I'll just leave it on the bench and it gets all mouldy

Shit, they wont even give away all their stuff like they're supposed to if you want to follow Jesus..

Luk 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

but back back to Matthew 16, here's what some old dude called Matthew Henry thinks about Matthew 16:25, he says it much better than I.

Whosoever will save his life in this world, if it be by sin, he shall lose it in another; he that forsakes Christ, to preserve a temporal life and avoid a temporal death, will certainly come short of eternal life, and will be hurt of the second death, and eternally held by it. There cannot be a fairer pretence for apostasy and iniquity than saving the life by it, so cogent is the law of self-preservation; and yet even that is folly, for it will prove in the end self-destruction; the life saved is but for a moment, the death shunned is but as a sleep; but the life lost is everlasting, and the death run upon is the depth and complement of all misery, and an endless separation from all good. Now, let any rational man consider of it, take advice and speak his mind, whether there is any thing got, at long run, by apostasy, though a man save his estate, preferment, or life, by it.

Matthew Henry commentary on The Book of Matthew Chapter 16

** apostasy, is not following the teachings of Jesus

"THE THINGS OF MEN" V "THE THINGS OF GOD"

If you read the full text of Matthew 16 below at the end of this blog, Peter said to Jesus that surely Christ should not lay down his life in such a selfless manner (Mat 16:21-23), so Jesus told Peter off, "Get behind Me, Satan!" - a famous quote - but the *very* important context of that quote is that, if you don't lay down and give your life for Jesus, ie for *love*, then you are akin to an emissary of Satan himself.

This is why I find the notion of christians fighting wars particularly strange, because technically speaking, if Jesus was their highest lord and saviour master messiah dude, as some so OFTEN claim, then they should be surrendering to the enemy, and all the atheists should be doing the actual fighting .. Imagine reports from the battlefields

Atheist-Soldier: General!!! General!! Come in!!! All ten thousand of our christians soldiers have surrendered to the enemy!!!
Atheist-General: What?!?! Again!?!?! We *just* secured their release!!! Well, you have to press on any way! complete the mission soldier!!
Atheist-Soldier: But there's just *me* left sir!!!
Atheist-General: Don't worry son! The enemy have their hands full with all the complaining from the christians claiming to be persecuted, that's why the enemy sent them back last time!

and Jesus also (not so clearly) indicates that if you don't lay down your life for the sake of Jesus' teachings of love ie. "the things of god", and you instead save your own life, ie. "the things of men", then you are committing idolatry.

Saving your own life is putting the "things of men" before the "things of god" - that's what the first commandment was about, I do believe, as putting manly things before godly things is the very definition of idolatry.

because self preservation is a thing of humans, is it not? we got that from evolution, all those years being chased by sabre tooth tigers taught us to not wander into dark caves and wander off alone at night and to not stand there and be eaten to death when you can do something about it, etc...

YOU KEEP MOVING THE GOAL POSTS!

Every time I read the bible, I have to move the goalposts even further away as to just how *wrong* christians have their religion. It's like I knew they had it wrong, but I didn't realise they had it so wrong that you could read the font from orbit.

it's like I'm the starter of a race where all the participants are bickering about where the finish line should be, 1.2 metres, 2.1 metres, 10.9 metres, a 100 metres, one guy says that just showing up means he's won the race and he won't fucking leave until you give him the god damn fucking gold medal for fucking showing up, blah lbah blah

but then every time I (stupidly) go and check the race rule book, it turns out that they're all wrong, and then I have to move the finishing line, a thousand kilometres away, and it's only a thousand kilometres away because at the time the rule book was written, there wasn't much need for numbers *that* big ("oh we'll never need a number that has more than three digits! who has that many goats any way?") and probably also because finishing the race wasn't the point of the "race" in the *first* place.

the point of the race was to let the other guy beat you, to *death* if need be, you'd think "The Passion" would have made that sink in, but alas, maybe it was too complicated to have to actually fucking read the subtitles of the Aramaic dialect? or maybe I underestimate how compelling watching blood and gore is amongst those who think they have a free pass to heaven?? We're a brutal society, most of us just tell ourselves that we are not...

"oh Jesus died on the fucking cross for me, so *I* don't fucking need to god damn fucking DO ANY FUCKING THING!"

sorry to generalise, but if the majority can not be bothered to do anything about their extremist minority, ("OH! they're not *REAL* christians!") then that majority can also not be bothered to complain when somebody points out the stray sheep in their flock, or indeed, that the whole flock is grazing in the wrong field, and are chewing on grass that has lots of fats and sugars with little to no nutritional value...

so "FUCKING YES!! Jesus is a myth", because the vast majority of christians are not even worshipping the Jesus from the bible, they're worshipping some version of him that's been made up along the way, because what christian would actually lay down their life to avoid sinning when they or their family or friends are attacked, let alone be prepared to lay down their life when some complete *stranger* was being attacked?

If you won't lay down your life for a stranger and you worship Jesus, then the Jesus from the bible is not the one you're worshipping, and when you worship a Jesus that's not from the bible, you are worshipping a FALSE Jesus, and when you worship a false Jesus, you are committing idolatry, and when you commit idolatry, you are breaking the first commandment and you are going to hell and all those nasty things ... idolatry is also an unforgivable sin, if I remember correctly.

just because you think you've got the right religion, it doesn't mean that you've got your religion right.

christians laying down their lives to save others, how often do you see stories like that? stories like that, are few and far between, and they are the stuff that legends are born from, and a myth is usually just a legend that's been told so often that the original facts have been completely lost.

If a truly christian nation were to "invade" another, then they would walk into the country unarmed, handing out food, medicines and other supplies, to win the hearts of the nation they were "invading", and anybody who was killed in the process, would be on an express ride to meet and greet with Jesus in the afterlife...

is that the mythical dude called Jesus that you are worshipping, or are you worshipping a myth based on the Jesus myth, that just happens to be called Jesus as well?

MATTHEW CHAPTER 16

the rest of the blog, is that bible story chapter Matthew Chapter 16, in full... it's interesting to read it all in context.... if you're as bored as I was to write this....

(note: "Leaven" is the yeast, or the *ingredients* of the bread, it's what it's made up of, and in terms of faith, it's a metaphor for the teachings of that doctrine, it's the *ingredients* of the faith)

The Pharisees and Sadducees Seek a Sign

Mat 16:1 Then the Pharisees and Sadducees came, and testing Him asked that He would show them a sign from heaven.
Mat 16:2 He answered and said to them, "When it is evening you say, 'It will be fair weather, for the sky is red';
Mat 16:3 "and in the morning, 'It will be foul weather today, for the sky is red and threatening.' Hypocrites! You know how to discern the face of the sky, but you cannot discern the signs of the times.
Mat 16:4 "A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah." And He left them and departed.

The Leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees

Mat 16:5 Now when His disciples had come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread.
Mat 16:6 Then Jesus said to them, "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees."
Mat 16:7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, "It is because we have taken no bread."
Mat 16:8 But Jesus, being aware of it, said to them, "O you of little faith, why do you reason among yourselves because you have brought no bread?
Mat 16:9 "Do you not yet understand, or remember the five loaves of the five thousand and how many baskets you took up?
Mat 16:10 "Nor the seven loaves of the four thousand and how many large baskets you took up?
Mat 16:11 "How is it you do not understand that I did not speak to you concerning bread? — but to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees."
Mat 16:12 Then they understood that He did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Peter Confesses Jesus as the Christ

Mat 16:13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?"
Mat 16:14 So they said, "Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
Mat 16:15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Mat 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 "And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
Mat 16:20 Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.

Jesus Predicts His Death and Resurrection

Mat 16:21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.
Mat 16:22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!"
Mat 16:23 But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men."

Take Up the Cross and Follow Him

Mat 16:24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.
Mat 16:25 "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.
Mat 16:26 "For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?
Mat 16:27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

Jesus Transfigured on the Mount

Mat 16:28 "Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."


http://www.blueletterbible.org/tools/printerFriendly.cfm?b=Mat&c=16&t=nkjvp