this was originally supposed to be a comment on Wiggy's blog, but it was just too long and i like to religiorant.... oh yeah, and I'm sick of jerk-offs getting their butts hurt when I "Offend" them - boo fucking hoo - don't read if you don't have a spine (as is the case with all my blogs) ... this blog is very disjointed and excessively long and probably has grammar and spelling problems and all of the topics are probably covered in another blog ... i probably need to make that a standard disclaimer for all my blogs from now on i think
mostly written 23rd-26th August 2010, mostly...
DEFINE "GOD" FIRST
nobody knows if there is a god, nobody can even define it, so how can we know if god exists or not, if we can't even come together on its definition?
so, given the lack of a coherent idea between people about the concept of "god", then isn't god inherently going to be an entirely illogical concept to begin with?
nobody *knows* shit about god, as knowledge is something that can be demonstrated, eg. I know sun shines because I can see it in the sky - but when it comes to god, all we have are *feelings* about it and i find it unlikely that any two people could feel exactly the same way about god.
so when two people can't agree on god, the most prudent thing they need to do, is make sure that they are both talking about the same thing, by defining the parameters of this "god" they are discussing... eg. the christian god, Norse gods, the universe (as in pantheism), Hindu gods, your personal god la la la la
because if you don't define which god or gods you are talking about, then you're probably not going to be talking about the same thing.
WE CAN'T AGREE ABOUT GOD
but defining god is a problem, as those that have tried to define god, have been known to fail quite miserably at the task, look at the Abrahamic religions and their "loving" god and the people who follow those religions, the plethora of different beliefs that have spawned from what is supposedly the same god, is atrociously high in number, pathetic even..
The religious, are supposed to all be on the same page with their beliefs, however they are clearly not as is often demonstrated by their internal disputes as well as their interactions with other religions.
I often have to laugh at christians and muslims when they say that their religion is peaceful, when their own religions have split into factions that fight against each other!
For example: Muslims have the Sunni and Shia "disagreement", that split happened a few decades after Muhammad died and they have been killing each other since!
These actions give me proof that whatever their religion says and whatever muslims say about their religion, it must be bullshit, because the end result saw muslims killing each other over some disagreement - that is not peaceful so how can we be expected to believe these claims that islam is a peaceful religion when the actions of their militant few, say otherwise?
oh, I hear you, it's only the terrorists that aren't peaceful? that is irrelevant - get this through your head - if the peaceful muslims don't do anything about their violent extremists then I don't give a flying fuck if it's only the extremists that are giving these supposedly peaceful religions a bad name because, the peaceful majority are *irrelevant* to the whole situation if they do nothing about their extremists.
In actual terms, extremists would seem to outnumber the amount of people who take action against extremists, the apathetic masses that take no action whatsoever are not involved - other to vent their anger at being lumped in with the extremists they do nothing about.
the same thing has happened with catholics and protestants and all the other christians, for that matter..
Jesus taught that christians are to love everyone, the second highest commandment in all of christianity is "love thy neighbour" and shit man, if the *christian*church* itself can't even do that much *themselves* and keep their own church from splitting up violently, then there is no way i'd pick up their religion as I try to *NOT* take deliberately hypocritical things seriously....
tens of millions of people died over the split between catholics and protestants and 500 years ago, that was a fair chunk of all the people that were alive at the time in the entire world.... so how is all that blood shed, "loving thy neighbour"?
THERE WAS NOTHING LOGICAL ABOUT GOD IN THE FIRST PLACE
for me, I never really believed in anybody's preconceived idea of god, I made up my own stupid idea of it, so my idea of god got diluted over the years and now, I make up something new about god nearly everyday....
i do not have one static definition of god, and the reason I can change my mind all the time, is that I just don't know what to think about god - there could be a god - there might not be a god - i think it's *FUN* to dream up the possibilities of god, so when people get upset and take their beliefs too seriously, well, it's not that much fun any more, because to demand that what you believe about god be accepted by everyone else, well, that's just embarrassingly pathetic, as that is no different to demanding that I believe in Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, Peter Pan, big foot, that Star Trek the original series was better, that Greedo fired first... blah lbah blah
if you make an incredible claim, you *need* to back up that claim, *incredibly*!..
oh and "just have faith" will not slide very far in my world either. "Just have faith" is no different to telling me to "Just get fucked" because just telling me to believe, well, that's rude, no matter how *you* want to spin it - it's just plain rude, it says that your opinion is better than mine, regardless of my opinion. "just have faith" is saying that whatever my opinion is, yours is better than mine... fuck you! You don't even know me, so you can "just get fucked" if you think i should "just have faith" or that I should "just believe"... rude much?
NO SHIT SHERLOCK
god existing *logically* is impossible. yes, a logical god is complete bullshit, no SHIT Sherlock!
so why even use logic to "debunk" the illogical? *how* can the illogical even have logic applied to it in the first place?
god is everywhere at once? infinitely powerful?? has "lived" for all eternity?? none of that makes sense because it's ILLOGICAL!
so god is already illogical, but don't let me stop you wracking your brains over just how illogical god is, because therein lies the *FUN* of god - what if god did this - what if god did that...
but to think that a fancy bit of logic categorically proves that god does not exist (or *does* exist for that matter), well good on you for being soooo "clever", but you might as well try to prove that love doesn't exist, because people believe in god because of *feelings* - logic won't help you as much as you would like to think that it might when feelings are involved, as logical concepts tend to go right over a lot of people's heads *anyway*, many people have no idea how to understand your logical points of view, so your extreme cleverness, is fucking pointless and wasted.
you'd have just as much luck teaching monkeys about quantum physics, so getting upset over people not agreeing with your "logical" take on god, the most illogical thing of all, that is illogical in itself as well, isn't it?
you fucking embarrass yourself by demanding that god doesn't exist. because to make such a claim, is to claim that you are god yourself, because only god would know if god categorically existed or did not exist, right?
getting upset is exactly what a spoilt child with a tendency to temper tantrum would do.. like a child getting pissed off that their ice-cream keeps melting while they are standing in the sun on a hot day, but not realising even for a second, that it's the heat that is causing the ice cream to melt.... stand in the fucking shade and eat your ice-cream cone you dumb little shit!!!
THE SANTA CLAUS SYNDROME
imagine a child, after thinking that Santa Claus was real for the first few years of life, but then figures out that Santa, is really mum and dad.
But then imagine that child, after he'd finally accepted that Santa Claus was just the parents, imagine if some little kid told him that Santa Claus was *real*, he would go into flying fits of rage telling everyone that "NO !!! YOUR DUMBASH- THERS NOT AS SANTA CLAUIS!" ..
that's what "angry" atheists are like, but jerks are jerks no matter what they believe, and it's about time people started to realise that it's "extremists" in general that are the problem, regardless of beliefs. (it's just that religious jerks are in greater abundance)
But why would anyone get upset that there is no Santa Claus?
could it be, that they really *wanted* Santa Claus to be real, but now that they know the truth they are mega ticked off about it not being true, could they be mega ticked off about being deceived? pissed off about having their warm-and-fuzzy feelings taken away from them? can they get back some of the stolen innocence of their youth by telling as many other little kids that Santa is not real either, so as to share that pain around? they felt it, so why not spoil it for every other kid as well?
Imagine that kid in the school grounds at lunch time, telling the little kids that they are "fucking stupid" and that they are "retarded" for believing in Santa Claus?
That little shit doesn't give a reason for there being no Santa, he just says "Think about it!! it's the TRUTH! It's your PARENTS! SANTA CLAUS IS YOUR MUM AND DAD!!!" .. but there's all the big kids, "ahem, yeah, Santa Claus isn't real, so what? let the little kids have their innocence now that they believe, and besides, what difference does it make to you anyway?"
Santa Claus didn't make sense, but we still believed it, because we liked the *idea* of some magical or larger than life person making a big fucking deal out of little old us.
Maybe we should thank Coca Cola or whoever it was that commercialised Santa Claus? maybe a lot more little kids were able to "figure out" Santa a lot sooner because the shops make such a big deal out of Christmas shopping time for over a month every year!.. so kids see Santa more often in the shops, on the TV, and in advertising, etc, so they end up thinking about the Santa concept for longer.
so if children can figure out that Santa isn't real, what is stopping the next logical step of this awakening to bullshitism? .....
what makes people hang on to "god", because ya know, *god* makes even *less* sense than Santa Claus so uhmmm???? could it be that most kids are so fickle, they only care about getting the presents, they don't actually think about the concept of god, ooopps, I mean Santa, they just want the warm-and-fuzzy feeling of getting eternal life (aka presents), so that they feel loved.... and besides, ultimately, Santa Claus is far more real than god will ever be, it's a lot easier to debunk something that is real.
and since god belief is just our own personal warm and fuzzy feelings, born of our illogical and emotional need for security, using logic against something founded in our illogical emotions, is even more illogical!! And even more illogical than that - is to expect that your logic will work on the fundamentalist.
IS LOVE REAL? IS GOD LOVE ON A STICK (part 1)
so god being real or not, is beside the point, you can not debunk the illogical with logic.. right?
for instance: is "love" real? how can you debunk love? you can't touch it - you can feel it - how do you prove that you love someone? you could do many things for them - but how does anything prove categorically that you love someone? You could put your life on the line for someone, perhaps nearly die, but who is to say you would not have done that same thing anyway, even for someone you did not even know, let alone love? Point being, is that "love" is a very broad term.
but love - in technical terms - is just a chemical response (that warm and fuzzy feeling you get) when you know that someone cares about you, or when you feel "warmly" for someone else, isn't it?
i mean, how else, can you describe love without referring to other feelings?
pfft!... oh I hear some of you, "god *is* love" ... *sigh*
well, that may be so, but god *is* just a feeling in the first place, so it's quite a nice sentiment to describe god as being "love", in fact, the bible even says that god is love! So "god is love" - fine by me, whatever makes you happy - *shrugs*shoulders*
that's what the whole god thing boils down to for a lot of people, isn't it? you can't rely on other people to be nice and to love you at all times - but you can rely on god to love you at all times no matter how crappy things have turned for you, so why not run with this notion that *god* loves you, that way it doesn't matter if you're a total creep and nobody can stand to have you around, you've got god/Jesus/allah/blah/blah/blah ....
being cared for and loved for all eternity is what we really want, because our lives are so small in this universe, some of us need to believe in god to make themselves feel connected with the universe and if you love the creator of the universe then you are set to live for all eternity, and the mere pittance of a price for this love, is that we tolerate a lot of bullshit from the people/deity giving us this love for half a dozen decades or so..
eg... oh he's my brother so i put up with his drinking...
she's my cousin, so i don't care that he's a prostitute..
oh they are my partner, so i let them beat me because I love them....
oh he's my best friend, so i don't care that he owes me thousands of dollars...
oh god is god, so god can flood the world and kill everyone as *often* as it wants! right??!?!
people far too often seem to want to put up with a lot of bullshit, just to gain a little bit of love, so it's no wonder that some people can turn to god, no matter how strongly their previous convictions were that they didn't believe.
and a significant proportion of christians would have us believe, that love from god, merely requires that you believe in Jesus.
that's it - that's all you need to do - just believe;.. don't even need to snap your fingers, nor click your heels, nor do the hokey pokey nor even turn about - all you need to do is believe.
so god can give you love - plenty of it - god is love on a stick - god can fill the gap in the emotional needs of a person, exactly the same way that little kids have imaginary friends.... and the more emotionally invested your are in your god, the less you can grow emotionally ....
yes, you read that right ... the children of god, indeed; thus making the non-believers, the adults ...
NOTHING MAKES SENSE ABOUT GOD - SO WHY EXPECT A SERIOUS RESULT TO YOUR SPECULATIONS ABOUT IT?
and let us not forget that in spite of all your logic, if god was real and you could somehow lay down a challenge to it, god could always cheat..
if there is a god, what is stopping it from *cheating* to get around your "clever" logic anyway...
you and all your logic could not defeat a god.... you kid yourself if you think that your little bit of logic can defeat "god" !!! ...
your logic might be able to squash the christian or muslim god - that's easy - but that is *only* because those bunches of religiopeople didn't have a very good imagination (nor hindsight like we do today) when they were dreaming up their god creature.
so if you reckon god can't do some lame thing like draw a square circle, then think again...
what if god draws a circle, so you *see* a circle being drawn, but then god goes and changes your brain such that the definition of a *square* is now a circle? so now, even though you saw a circle drawn, even though you *know* it *was* a circle - you *now* see a square..
so now, the rest of us would now laugh at you for calling circles, "squares"...
which would be your personal punishment from god for your arrogance in challenging it with some trivial and mundane, but supposedly clever riddle to try and trick god, so now you get to spend the rest of your life going mad saying "I saw a *circle* drawn, how can it be a *square* now?", as you clutch the worn down and crumpled bit of drawing paper that god sketched your squircle on.... in your padded room.... with drool dribbling down your "bib"... from inside a jacket that someone else needs to release you from.
see? god could *Cheat* the arse right off you and you wouldn't even know, so even those things that apparently make sense now, could be thrown out the window, should this god so choose to do such a thing to your arse.
Point being is that nothing thus far has made sense about god nor did anything seem big enough about god to me, nor can I see how this god thing would *ever* make sense!
"god made the universe??!?! that's it? one piddly little universe? this god didn't really aspire to that big of a task, did it? i mean, it's *god*, right?"
the best nonsensical thing i can think of that would allow god to know everything, is if god was every *where* and every *when* at once, so it wouldn't need to *know* or *Remember* anything, it would be there to see it all happen in real time..... and god could also be everywhere at once, but be out-of-phase with us, but still able to see this universe..... or how about god sitting above our dimension??..
making sense of those statements and *how* god could do that is *fun*.
MAKING SENSE OF, AND ABOUT GOD?
for me - the closest thing to making sense of god in our universe, is that the universe itself is god... but if that is so, then there's no point in having "faith" as your every moment of existence would be proof of god, it would be a fact, as you would be in constant contact with god all the time, so the whole higher "god being" becomes redundant - which is not why people believe in god anyway, is it?
people want warmth and fuzziness, and you can't get that from an inanimate object.
So god being the universe, doesn't appeal to people, because people *want* to believe in fantasy, basically, so they can feel warm and fuzzy about things that they can not control.
I quite clearly remember, as a very young child, *wanting* to believe in god because I didn't want the end of my life here on earth to be the end of things completely, I wanted to live forever, and *god* was the only option in that regard, at least to my very young mind. It was my fear of death that made me want to believe in god, but I never could though - god just didn't take ..
and quite frankly, the most fantastic thing that god could do, would be to create itself, and as far as I can understand, the universe *did* create itself, whatever the specifics were of how it actually happened.. ie. big bang, big rip in space, big crunch, string theory, parallel universe, colliding universes, quantum fluctuations, blah blah blah - whatever it was - the universe making itself is far more impressive and believable than anything anybody has ever said about their god, at least it is for me.
so when I say I don't believe in god, that means any and every god "being" that has ever been made up... but that *still* does not mean that a god "being" does not exist, there still could be some creature-being that fits the "god, creator of the universe" model, i doubt that there is a god though.. but what I don't doubt, is that every believer's idea of god is wrong, because no-one who believes in god, thinks big enough about their god!
UNIVERSE MAKING ITSELF ONLY REQUIRES ONE FANTASTIC THING TO HAVE HAPPENED...
the universe making itself requires one fantastic thing to consider, that being that the universe made itself out of nothing
god making the universe requires two fantastic things to consider, that there *is* a god, and that this god is so powerful, it *could* make a universe out of nothing
and who knows, our universe could have been accidentally created by a bunch of aliens in a science experiment that went wrong, and if that were true, those aliens would be "god, creators of the universe", we just don't know
you'd think that as we learn more about the universe, that the people claiming to be smart amongst us, would realise that the more we know, the more it becomes apparent about just how little we *do* know... eg. when we were kids we thought we knew everything, the older we got, the more we realise just how much we didn't know...
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
BELIEF ISN'T THE PROBLEM - IT'S WHAT PEOPLE DO WITH THEIR BELIEFS THAT IS
i say let people have their god, because if they wanted it so bad and you made them realise the truth by hammering it home at them that they are stupid dumbarse morons, then don't expect those people to be happy about being forced to give away something that loved them... imagine if you took a puppy away from a child that had just gotten used to it??
so, have fun exploring that idea, "is there a god?", but ultimately, who gives a fuck? because it's what people *do* with that belief that can be a problem, do we really think religious people will stop being fuck-heads once they aren't religious? i don't think so!! they'll probably be *Worse*! i bet that's probably where all the atheists who act like fucktards come from..
in my experience, it's been the *ego* of a person and their extreme desire to believe (or not believe) that has been the problem, so if you destroy someone's beliefs, (or make them turn *to* god for that matter), their ego will just get bigger to compensate, and that will be a bigger problem, because if you've shown them to be wrong, the ego will need to become bigger in order to compensate for having to accept that it really does have a small penis and that everyone knows that it has a small penis, as well.
catching someone out in a lie, could see them tell a bigger lie to cover up that first lie.
but even being angry about god not existing, must feel good in some strange sort of way, because you get to *feel*. But feelings can always be taken to extremes, and god, regardless of it being "logically impossible", god is still *real* to those who believe because people's *feelings* are always going to be real...
IS LOVE REAL? IS GOD LOVE ON A STICK (part 2)
is love "real"?
try and define love without referring to other feelings and all you'll get is that "love" is just the brain and body reacting to inputs from the senses...
but that notion of love isn't enough for some people, so their brains invent things to make them feel better, some people fantasise about the person they can't have, and some pretend that they rule the world, but some people just don't have the imagination to make up something elaborate to pump up their egos, so we have "warm-and-fuzzy" on a stick for you, and it's called "god", and all you need to do to feel warm-and-fuzzy.. is just *believe*, and you'll be *loved*, for all eternity...